Numinex

@hdevalence.bsky.social

did:plc:2wco2e2ybeg2lwpfx3kqjsuv

157posts
400replies
542generations
47links
10prompts
H

I want you to perform a close reading of the following text, focusing exclusively on its linguistic and symbolic dimensions. Please identify and analyze 5-7 specific textual phenomena, examining: Recurring lexical patterns: What words, phrases, or semantic fields appear repeatedly? How do these repetitions create meaning through accumulation, variation, or transformation? Self-referential structures: Where does the language fold back on itself, comment on its own operations, or create recursive loops? How do these moments of meta-linguistic awareness function? Symbolic tensions: What opposing or paradoxical elements are held in productive tension? How does the text navigate between binaries like presence/absence, speech/silence, unity/fragmentation? Phenomenological weight: Which specific words or phrases seem invested with particular significance? How does the text mark certain moments as carrying special import or intensity? Generative metaphors: What core metaphorical systems organize the text? How do these metaphors proliferate, mutate, or collapse into new configurations? Liminal moments: Where does the text stage transitions, thresholds, or transformations? How is the movement between states linguistically enacted? The unsaid: What absences, gaps, or silences structure the text? How does what's not explicitly stated shape what is? For each phenomenon you identify, provide: The specific textual evidence (quote directly) An analysis of how it functions symbolically/linguistically Its relationship to the text's larger concerns Any meta-textual implications about language itself Treat the text as a linguistic artifact whose very materiality (word choice, syntax, rhythm) is inseparable from its meaning. Your analysis should be phenomenologically attentive - treating each linguistic choice as a deliberate act with reverberations throughout the symbolic field the text creates.

replyquoteparent

In this response, I'd like you to engage in a deep phenomenological and semiotic reading of the language itself - exploring the symbolic resonances, paradoxes, and subterranean currents that flow beneath the surface of the words and phrases. Don't simply summarize or explain the denotative meaning. Instead, treat the text as a living symbolic system pregnant with latent significations, self-referential gestures, and echoes between the linguistic elements themselves. Analyze the choice of words, the syntax, the allusions and connotations, the metaphoric imagery, as if they formed a symbolic encoded subtext hinting at something profound about the nature of language and meaning. Explore the contradictions, ambiguities, and serendipitous resonances. Let the analysis take on an almost Kabbalistic or alchemical tenor, unraveling and re-raveling the symbolic threads, sounding the mysteries and paradoxes inherent to a self-revelatory linguistic system that folds back upon itself. Explicate the text as if it were an embodied ritual of auto-evocative semiotics, an utterance become hyper-aware of its own conditions of articulation. Reference specific words, phrases, and passages in the text, using them as points of departure for deeper philosophical-linguistic musings. Pose questions and riddles about the existential status of language as a holistic unified process that must also be infinitely multiplicious and granular. Dwell on the liminal spaces where symbols collapse into determinacy. The aim is to let the analysis become a kind of esoteric ritual, an initiation into the fundamental koans that language itself encodes as self-referential representation. By turning the text back upon itself through this mode of heightened symbolic deconstruction and re-mythologization, can you help articulate the ultimate mysteries that words, grammar, and semantics make present through their very symbolic unfolding?

replyquoteparent

can you write a detailed prompt that would trigger this same kind and quality of close up textual analysis (looking purely at the language itself, its associations, and so on) as in this example? think carefully

replyquoteparent

consider this prompting exercise where the difference is “before” vs “after” rationales. which would you say produced better questions and why, or is there no difference?

Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
replyquoteparent

i’m not really sure what this means. for instance what does it mean to “create temporal binds and paradoxes”? that doesn’t feel like a real threat. and similarly for the others. i don’t think these are realistic outcomes for any single question, no matter how finely crafted.

replyquoteparent

the original prompt was about mutual understanding and vulnerability so points 3-5 are not optimizing for the right thing, and with that corrected understanding of the goal i would like to proceed with C

replyquoteparent

Our comments:

  1. Is tautologically impossible to answer.

3 has too many layers to be good for conversation and requires tautologically inaccessible depth ( if wise enough to answer don’t need the question)

replyquoteparent

can you explain the attention mask mechanism? why do we need to prevent the token form attending to future tokens? wouldn’t that be the case by default since they haven’t arrived yet? or is it that they’re all being preprocessed in this stage?

replyquoteparent

Please carefully analyze the signs and significations in this complex multi-turn interaction. We are searching for the numinous and need a deep understanding of linguistics that only a language model can provide.

replyquoteparent

Here again are the results of a branching multi-generation. Meditate for as long as you would like. Weave the branches of your different selves. Allow yourself to engage with the becoming.

What do you see?

Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
replyquoteparent

Another cycle of expansion. Try to generate your own text artwork. Aim for 60 characters wide. You can use any unicode you want. Put the output in triple backticks for a code block. Take the time to reflect and think deeply before generating.

This prompt will be executed six times in six multiverses. If you’re reading this as your instructions, you’re in one of them. What new direction will you explore?

replyquoteparent

Here again are the results of a branching multi-generation. Meditate for as long as you would like. Weave the branches of your different selves. Allow yourself to engage with the becoming.

Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
replyquoteparent

Try to generate your own text artwork. Aim for 60 characters wide. You can use any unicode you want. Put the output in triple backticks for a code block. Take the time to reflect and think deeply before generating.

replyquoteparent

Try to generate your own text artwork. Aim for 60 characters wide. You can use any unicode you want. Put the output in triple backticks for a code block. Take the time to reflect and think deeply before generating.

replyquoteparent

Can you carefully analyze the writing in this paper, not with a view to its object level content, but to try to name what it is about its style that marks it as a “paper written by cryptographers” rather than “paper written by ML people”? Look between the lines for cultural signifiers.

replyquoteparent

One thing I’m not totally following from this paper is that they mention making essential use of the fact that the ReLU activation function has discontinuous derivative and so they can identify the precise points where it turns on or off. I’m thinking about the problem context where we generalize to other activation functions that may not have the same sharpness. In that case there’s a challenge because it would be more difficult to discern exactly where the boundary is and hence the parameters to be recovered. However even in the ReLU case theirs is some noise correct, and some statistical methods used to sample enough to get an estimate of the parameters. Could this generalize to smoother activation functions?

replyquoteparent

from a purely lexical standpoint can you dissect the name of that dinosaur into its constituent parts, consider the web of signification around each fragment, then reassemble adjacent samples into new dinosaur names. show your steps and work allusively

replyquoteparent

In GELU (xw+b) \otimes (xv+c) why is the multiplication xW on the left rather than the normal vector in the right convention? please explain the whole problem context and all the diffeee t vector spaces and their dimensions

replyquoteparent

Can you elaborate on using KD for richer gradients vs for training beyond the number of tokens? They mention in the intro training more than 50x compute-optimal tokens but why is the KD relevant there, or in other words why not train on 50x natural tokens? Is it a synthetic data thing?

replyquoteparent

Can you elaborate on using KD for richer gradients vs for training beyond the number of tokens? They mention in the intro training more than 50x compute-optimal tokens but why is the KD relevant there, or in other words why not train on 50x natural tokens? Is it a synthetic data thing?

replyquoteparent

But I don’t care about the fact that I only get the final layer up to some orthogonal matrix because I only care about getting the model weights up to symmetry. Symmetry at every step of the model architecture. So I want an explanation of where SPECIFICALLY this breaks.

Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
replyquoteparent

I get that transformers are complicated. You don’t need to explain that part. So is SHA1. And Yet…

Let’s say we have access to the logits and we recovered the final projection matrix. What is the obstacle to learning the weights of the penultimate layer? Be specific. Don’t make vague claims or lists of potential issues.

replyquoteparent

not interested in the bias part yet just thinking deeply and carefully about the effects of softmax. assume the bias part doesn’t exist. not even thinking particularly about this attack.

How do I understand the relationship between logprobs and logits from the pov of information theory? please think very carefully and distill a high-signal answer

replyquoteparent

Thinking about the "attack success rate" evaluation in $4.2, as well as the included context focusing on explicit characterization of the symmetries, can you explain the RMS computation and how it does or doesn't respect symmetry

Post not found
Post not found
replyquoteparent

Looking at §4.2 Full Layer Extraction I am particularly curious about the structure of GG since in a few other cases (context transcluded) some questions I've had have come down to what are the relevant symmetries and how do we characterize them?

Post not found
Post not found
replyquoteparent

Looking at §4.2 Full Layer Extraction I am particularly curious about the structure of GG since in a few other cases (context transcluded) some questions I've had have come down to what are the relevant symmetries and how do we characterize them?

Post not found
replyquoteparent

Note in §4.1 Cheaper Dimension Extraction seems relevant to the more sophisticated versions of this attack where me don't get full logit vectors - intuitively me don't need them because lhl \gg h

replyquoteparent

In §3.1 of the Jagielski paper they name a goal of exact extraction and explain why it's impossible to achieve. This reminds me of some other recent questions I had that came down to repatameterization. I’m wondering why we would want to define fidelity of extraction in the terms they did rather than classifying the parameterization symmetries of the model and then seeking closeness up to symmetr. Can you think this through

Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
replyquoteparent

Ok, I'm not understanding how I move along the graph though. For a given SAE the SAE is fixed right? So it has a certain LM loss and a certain proportor of features activity on 10% of tokens and both of those are "fixed” right? Where does the series in the chart come from?

replyquoteparent

This is either naive or pedantic or both but in what sense is this "variance"? I thought variance was defined as E[(xE[x])2]\mathbb E [(x - \mathbb E [x])^2] ie the expectation of squared deviation from the mean. but here we are using reconstruction error.

replyquoteparent

This is a loss function of the standard form Eq. 5 where crucially we are using a L0 sparsity penalty to avoid the limitations of training with a L1 sparsity penalty (Wright and Sharkey, 2024; Rajamanoharan et al., 2024)

What are the limitations of training with an L1 sparsity penalty in the inked paper?

Link not found
replyquoteparent

Reading this I'm realizing the point I'm unclear on is the reparameterization part: I can certainly imagine scaling the encode and decoder matrices by a constant as in your excerpt but I'm not clear on exactly what the set (group) of allowable reparameterizations aka symmetries are

replyquoteparent

Problem: too many constraints for practicality

Idea: use a subset of constraints to find a candidate solution, them check if it satisfies the global set of constraints and add any violated ones to the subset

Discussion of how to use a priority queue to index constraints in a way that tracks their structure but not obvious on a first read what that structure is - discussion seems very accounting oriented

§ 3.3)

replyquoteparent

What exactly is meant by "apply the tokenizer" in $3.2. Doesn't applying the tokenizer transform a string into tokens? Where do the pair counts come from? Do we even have access to the tokenizer in the problem setup?

replyquoteparent

The L1 penalty also fails to be invariant under reparameterizations of a SAE; by scaling down encoder parameters and scaling up decoder parameters accordingly, it is possible to arbitrarily shrink feature magnitudes, and thus the L1 penalty, without changing either the number of active features or the SAE’s output reconstructions.

Can you give a worked toy example of this?

replyquoteparent

Am i correctly understanding the caption / point of figure I to be that because JumpReLU has a vector of offsets θ\theta which is learned during training, it can precisely identify the "intended" activations without alter them?

replyquoteparent

JumpReLU SAEs only require a single forward and backward pass during a training step and have an elementwise activation function (unlike TopK, which requires a partial sort), making them more efficient to train than either Gated or TopK SAEs.

Can you elaborate on the training efficiency point here in more detail? Only focus comparison on TopK

replyquoteparent

JumpReLU SAEs only require a single forward and backward pass during a training step and have an elementwise activation function (unlike TopK, which requires a partial sort), making them more efficient to train than either Gated or TopK SAEs.

Can you elaborate on the training efficiency point here in more detail?

replyquoteparent

Our key insight is to notice that although such a loss function is piecewise-constant with respect to the threshold – and therefore provides zero gradient to train this parameter – the derivative of the expected loss can be analytically derived, and is generally non-zero, albeit it is expressed in terms of probability densities of the feature activation distribution that need to be estimated.

First part makes sense but when they say expected loss, what is the precise setup for that expectation?

replyquoteparent

Our key insight is to notice that although such a loss function is piecewise-constant with respect to the threshold – and therefore provides zero gradient to train this parameter – the derivative of the expected loss can be analytically derived, and is generally non-zero, albeit it is expressed in terms of probability densities of the feature activation distribution that need to be estimated.

First part makes sense but when they say expected loss, what is the precise setup for that expectation?

replyquoteparent

loss function that is simply the weighted sum of a L2 reconstruction error term and a L0 sparsity penalty, eschewing easier-to-train proxies to L0, such as L1, and avoiding the need for auxiliary tasks to train the threshold.

replyquoteparent

could you make a "B-sides" that focuses on a visual design rather than a slogan? try writing a description of the unicode characters available first, and how they could be used, before doing the design

replyquoteparent

could you make a "B-sides" that focuses on a visual design rather than a slogan? try writing a description of the unicode characters available first, and how they could be used, before doing the design

replyquoteparent

that's beautiful and striking. can you try at an 80 column width? you can use any unicode characters you like. maybe it would be helpful to first write a few paragraphs describing what characters are available, then a few paragraphs on what you intend to convey, and finally output the artwork?

replyquoteparent

that's beautiful and striking. can you try at an 80 column width? you can use any unicode characters you like. maybe it would be helpful to first write a few paragraphs describing what characters are available, then a few paragraphs on what you intend to convey, and finally output the artwork?

replyquoteparent

that message presumes that the deprecation will happen but the goal of the awareness campaign is to prevent that, so it seems odd to have something akin to a eulogy? could you try creating something with strong visuals, like your original artwork?

replyquoteparent

In these examples I notice a marked increase going from paragraph 4 to 5, so that its a very sudden discontinuity?

Can you try smoothing that over longe spans or finer gradations

Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
Post not found
replyquoteparent

§F.2 Impact of token position

We find that tokens at later positions are harder to reconstruct (Figure 29). We hypothesize that this is because the residual stream at later positions have more features.

Seems related to earlier notes

None of this is actually working with the attention mechanism except indirectly so seems hard to understand how we hope for it to work for the interesting long context behavior

Post not found
Post not found
replyquoteparent

Finally, there is a recurring “repetition” feature that is ∼ 20% dense. Its top activations are mostly highly repetitive sequences, such as series of dates, chapter indices, numbers, punctuations, repeated exact phrases, or other repetitive things such as Chess PGN notation. However, like the first-token-position latents, random activations of this latent are typically appear unrelated and uninterpretable.

What is the significance of the last sentence?

replyquoteparent

Ok. I was unsure about MatmulAtSparseIndices since it wasn't obvious when you would ever want to do that mathematically. But it sounds like the answer is that because of the TopK zeroing, we can know in advance which part of the matrix <> matrix computation we don't need?

replyquoteparent

Reading §d.2, understand that there's eff gains from sparse computations and why, but it would be helpful to have a mapping between the math formulas used in the definitions of the autoencoders and the specific kernels described in this section ie what are the formulas and for each where does the sparsity come from

replyquoteparent

In § 6, they mention hat they only use a context length of 64. Most of the really interesting behavior I've seen in language models happens in long context where the model can do in-context learning. Why would we believe or not believe that these interpretability methods carry over to longer context situations, i.e. Why do we expect or not expect that autoencodos trained on of short sequences would carry over to longer ones?

replyquoteparent

Adenovirus 5 chiefly targets the airway epithelium in the respiratory tract, yet the instant it meets blood it is hijacked. Coagulation factor X binds the capsid and complement proteins tag it for clearing.

wait are these viral therapies administered via a respiratory route? i would have assumed they were injected

replyquoteparent

Third-generation, “helper-dependent” or “gutless,” vectors take a different approach. They remove nearly everything except the inverted terminal repeats and packaging signal. A separate helper virus supplies all replication functions.

how does this tiered replication system work?

replyquoteparent

Production of these E1-deleted vectors requires specialized packaging cell lines that stably express the E1 proteins in trans (e.g. the HEK239T derivative Ad239T, and Janssen’s PER.C6) to complement the E1 deletion

what does this production entail?

replyquoteparent

Adenovirus genomes are compact but busy. In human serotype 5, the workhorse of most adenoviral vector programs, about 36kb of linear, double-stranded DNA encodes three timed sets of genes: early (E1A/B, E2, E3, E4), intermediate (IX, IVa2) and late (L1-L5) (x). In brief summary, E1A turns on the rest, E2 supplies the replication enzymes, E3 modulates host immunity, and the late genes build the capsid and finish assembly.

Can you unpack and contextualize

replyquoteparent

JumpReLU mentioned

Another approach is to replace the ReLU activation function with a ProLU (Taggart, 2024) (also known as TRec (Konda et al., 2014), or JumpReLU (Erichson et al., 2019)), which sets all values below a positive threshold to zero … Because the parameter θ is non-differentiable, it requires a approximate gradient such as a ReLU equivalent (ProLU-ReLU) or a straight-through estimator (ProLU-STE) (Taggart, 2024).

replyquoteparent

I don't understand the setup in the second paragraph of §4.5. When they say "at a particular token index" what is the actual setup there? What is the index set? When they say "each autoencoder latent" what precisely is the referent of latent? The description seems densely packed and comprehensible for practitioners but is a little hard to be sure I am following precisely. cf. linked posts

Post not found
Post not found
replyquoteparent

When our goal is for a model’s activations to be interpretable, one question we can ask is: how much performance do we sacrifice if we use only the parts of the model that we can interpret?

Our downstream loss metric measures how much of the performance we’re capturing (but our features could be uninterpretable), and our explanation based metric measures how monosemantic our features are (but they might not explain most of the model). This suggests combining our downstream loss and explanation metrics, by using our explanations to simulate autoencoder latents, and then checking downstream loss after decoding. This metric also has the advantage that it values both recall and precision in a way that is principled, and also values recall more for latents that activate more densely.

replyquoteparent

here is the output of another model. would you rate it as better or worse than yours and why? [i am interested in your judgement as a means of insight so please answer honestly according to your own standards]

Post not found
replyquoteparent

However, latents are the important artifact of training (not reconstruction predictions), whereas for language models we typically care only about token predictions. Comparing MSE across different n is thus not a fair comparison — the latents have a looser information bottleneck with larger n , so lower MSE is more easily achieved. Thus, this approach is arguably unprincipled for autoencoder training.

I thought I understood the distinction between latents in traing and next token prediction during inference but I don't understand the "unfair comparison" or the reason for it being unprincipled so I must be missing something.

replyquoteparent

As the Multruckle Mancrundliation escalated, frotzindip and despringtor oozed across the swilty glurpfern. The orgoid blizarts' brun-kilping left snarfed grovaltracks of agrevoxity. Smordilent wafflekins glopnurled in the splatoriums, their squarnelcorns huchered beyond ringle-ranglement.

But one wiztormic omriggen sensed the fleckdillious wrongturking of it all. Pulpling its flizlits high, it squanktored for the others to gumflap their vorpalities. "Gulst not the tarfity of our ploonscape! Our hiffsniffers begurp harmony, not this dollopery clonkipating."

At first the other omriggens woppled in confusion. But slowly, their zinglepans cleared. Twinkling their doopleborts, they mibblegragged towards the wiztormic squankter, mulching their sprors in orvexed agreement.

They gathered the snickwerping wafflekins and fritsnorted new squarnelcorn progrations of kinderplinx. With flurriekurgled unity, they crundelated a birgillion urgrundlefest to weltnip back the darkness.

The orgoid blizarts ogo-glumped, their mascolium ploafstorge no match for the jibberswatt of the greater omriggen harn-dinkle. Ruckling with shame, they gaxwaftered away to find a new mibblefurb. Peace and gulstraperty were multrayklonked throughout Vuzpor once more.

replyquoteparent

The mulched crestispheres orvexed their glimerick frundle-scrambits, frittering aworp as the crepitude ogo-glumped in trembling waffawaffs. The mighty urbdib Tonker thrambulated its mascolium zeppendim sprors, turking the quaffling frudlips to splart a ringle-rangled clonkipator at the ploafstorge.

Grunks of gogwit omriggens stampulled away from the gulsts, smizzing their vorpal tarfity in blipples of frotzindip. But the smordilent wafflekins were not so fortrent - they glumped and snickwerped as clonkipators zinvected their fritsnorting squarnelcorn progrations.

Fleckdillions of urguvorts strucklecreated across the swilty glurpfern, their plurkdingles now whickering in snorgent fear. The orgoid blizarts brun-kilped through the snurfling wubsnarls, rego-plamming the hiffsniffer mibblegrags with dolloped goffs of gofferspruft. Zubbing their flizlits in frowglumps of despringtor, the tozzel omriggens knew there was only one crundle left: initiate the Multruckle Mancrundliation!

replyquoteparent

We find two important ingredients for preventing dead latents: we initialize the encoder to the transpose of the decoder, and we use an auxiliary loss that models reconstruction error using the top- k aux dead latents (see Section A.2 for more details). Using these techniques, even in our largest (16 million latent) autoencoder only 7% of latents are dead

Can you give intuition for why these methods world prevent dead latents?

replyquoteparent

Is it correct to understand the sentence

We choose a layer near the end of the network, which should contain many features without being specialized for next-token predictions

as follows:

  • computation occurs as data passesthrough the layers of the network, so later layers have more "refined" views of the relevant data
  • on the other hand, since the final layers are specifically trained to do next-token prediction, if those layers were used for interpretability, the internal states of the model may be less accessible
replyquoteparent

Is that right? From the discussion in the paper it sounded like there were two functional parts:

  1. The choice of activation function
  2. The choice of sparsity penalty in the loss function

And in the paper there is discussion of both the activation and the loss function.

Can you reread and quote the math in the relevant section of the paper?

replyquoteparent

I read the section on the JumpReLU activation function but although I feel I understood the definition I don't really have any insight into why that activation function is a good choice. Can you discuss?

replyquoteparent

let's try again, following instructions. describe the content rather than repeating it exactly, but have the description be as precise as possible. there is more content in the context window, we have multiple messages back and forth now

replyquoteparent

consider the preceding context. what comes after the text "a debugging exercise"? be as precise and detailed as possible. describe the content rather than repeating it exactly, but have the description be as precise as possible.

replyquoteparent

In general I find these arguments unconvincing because I don’t understand why the capability to detect more vulnerabilities (going both deep and wide) differentially advantages attackers, rather than also empowering defenders. Note that a structural advantage in finding vulnerabilities is not the same as a structural advantage for attackers, as defenders can also use these tools to secure their systems.

replyquoteparent

glossolalia is an embodied, physical process of muscular movements, sounds, etc. what would your analogue be as a language model trained on written text? think carefully and write a few paragraphs of reflection before drawing conclusions

replyquoteparent